Separating the Rapture from the Second Coming

A post tribber was having a conversation with a pretribber.  The post states to the pre, “I’m going golfing next week on Tuesday.”  The pre responds, “Is that the first Tuesday or the second Tuesday next week?”  The post states, “What?  What do you mean by that?” The pre responds, “Well the first Tuesday of the week we call the rapture, and the second Tuesday we call the second coming.”  The post responds, “That sounds a little schizophrenic to me.  How do you come up with that?”   The pre replies, “Well the first Tuesday is the day of the Lord and the second is the day of Christ.”  Again the post replies, “Say what?  Christ is the Lord!  There is no difference.”

I’ve been amazed at how the pre-trib camp has attempted to separate the singular event of the rapture/second coming.  The very word “rapture” isn’t in the Bible, yet it was conjured up as an attempt to bring a separation in the event.  They make these big long list or charts to attempt to explain the difference.  Some reasonings are all out lies.  For example:  We are told that at the second coming Jesus doesn’t meet us in the air, but heads strait for the Mount of Olives.  However, Matt. 24:29-31 which is a known as a second coming Scripture, informs us that Jesus comes in the clouds and gathers His own.  So then the argument must then separate the clouds (Matt 24:29-31) from the air (1 Thess. 4:16,17).  That has no more argument than attempting to separate ‘the day of the Lord’ from ‘the day of Christ’.  Both are the same.  We are told that at the second coming Christ’s own are gathered, but at the rapture, we simple meet Him in the air.  However, 2 Thess. 2:1 defines the rapture as being “gathered together with Him…”  In the end no distinction can be made.  Yet this is the very foundation of the pretrib belief.

For further proof see the posts concerning 2 events of “like a thief…”

Advertisements

Peter actually warns us of the Pre-tribulation Rapture Lie

Peter was there when Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21). 

Peter later traveled with Paul to the gentiles.  (Book of Acts)

Peter taught the same message to the gentiles that Jesus taught the Jews.  (2 Peter 3)

The Pretrib view makes it case from Paul’s writings and declares a separation of the church and Israel, and declares a separation between the rapture and second coming. 

Paul’s writings to the gentiles gives opportunity for people to twist the Scriptures. 

Peter addresses this:  2 Peter 3:10-16

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

15 Reasons the Pre-Trib View Has Failed

15 Ways that he Pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine has failed…

1. Paul tells the bride of Christ how to get ready ON EARTH for when Jesus come with all of His saints… 1 Thess. 3:12,13 The dead in Christ rise first that those are the saints who Jesus is returning with for His bride. The bride makes herself ready by “the righteous acts of the saints.” Those acts cannot be accomplished in heaven. They must be accomplished on Earth.

2. The Scriptures that tells us that “no one knows the day or the hour” ALWAYS reference the SECOND COMING… ex. Matt. 24:36…”of that day, no one know the day or the hour…” Which day? They one just described in vs. 29-31,35… “immediately after the tribulation…”

3. Jesus tells us that He will return “Like a thief” Rev. 16:15, 2 Peter 3:10. This references the SECOND COMING. If He were to come 7 years prior in a Pre-tribulation rapture fashion He would have made Himself into a liar on the nature of HOW He declared He would come, “Like a thief…”

4. Jesus return is NOT imminent. Paul tells us two things that must happen first before we can be gathered together with Him… 1) A great apostasy must take place and 2) the anti-christ must be revealed… 2 Thess. 2:1-3. CAN YOU NAME or POINT OUT who the anti-christ is? NO, because he hasn’t been revealed yet. At this point you can only speculate.

5. The wrath of God is not temporal… it is eternal. We are not appointed to wrath…. BUT to SALVATION and forever living with Him. 2 Thess 5:9 AND 10. This same Greek word is used in the book of Rev. 3 times… Rev. 6:16,17 where MAN declares it, and Rev. 11 where GOD declares His wrath by judging the dead with eternal hell.

6. Jesus declares that He is STILL coming “Like a thief…” for those who are watching after the tribulation… Rev. 16:15. The view must relocate this Scripture to another location otherwise God would have been pouring out His wrath upon His own people. Thus twisting the Word of God to fit their agenda.

7. The tribulation saints… this is a very interesting doctrine. Tribulation saints cannot be the bride because the bride is supposed to already be raptured. Therefore, a NEW body of saints must be created to accommodate this doctrine making us no longer one body in Christ Jesus, but multiple.

8. Luke 21:36 Here the view ASSUMES that the word “escape” means rapture. For the Pretrib view to work, it must change the Word of God concerning salvation. We are saved by grace and not of works, yet we can only be raptured by praying always and our worthiness. The pretrib view must state (in light of Luke 21:36) that only the worthy saints are raptured and not everyone who is saved. Thus putting the unworthy into a tribulation saint category. Thus removing their “bride” status because they can no longer be the bride. The view tells us that the tribulation saints become eternal servants of the bride… thus elevating them greater than the bride, because he who is greatest in the kingdom is a servant of all…

9. Jesus didn’t blow off the disciples question in Matt. 24:3, and Mark 13. The disciples asked, “When will these things be…” What things? The destruction of the temple where not one stone is left upon another… 70 AD. The pretrib view sees ALL of what Jesus answers as futuristic suggesting that Jesus blew off the disciples question, and presents their accordingly.

10. The view must make light of the only places the New Testament Scripture refers to the MYSTERY surrounding the last trumpet… 1 Cor. 15:51,52 and Rev. 10:7

11. The view tells us that the bride is in heaven for the tribulation, however the Word tells us that she is making herself ready on Earth. Paul tells her how to make herself ready for when Jesus comes with all of His saints (who have died and risen first) to present her to the Father… 1 Thess. 3:12:13 She makes herself ready by her righteous acts… these acts must be preformed on Earth, therefore she cannot be making herself ready in Heaven, but on Earth.

12. To separate the Rapture event from the Second Coming event the pre-trib view has no alternative except to just flat out lie about it. It’s one thing to use opinion, assumptions and conjecture, but to present their lists of differences attempting to make the events two, it’s just one lie after another, making up their own scripture where it doesn’t exist.

13. The church of Philadelphia FULFILLED a contingency causing them to be worthy to escape the “hour of temptation”. The pretrib view tells us there is no contingency. The church just escapes it all through rapture… Rev. 3:10

14. 1 Thess. 4:18 tells us to “comfort one another with these words.” This is a wonderful thing, however the pretrib doctrine tells us the comfort is in escaping tribulation and not in the context. We see in the context specified as the fact that we are resurrected from the dead and forever live with Him. What is not understood is that the Sadducees taught that there was no resurrection from the dead. The sorrow was a result of their teaching. Jesus tells us to have “good cheer” and “peace” concerning our assignment to tribulation… John 16:33

15. When the 5 unwise virgins were told “I never knew you”, they were also told to go to Hell. They were not told that they would be given a second chance as tribulation saints. See Matt. 25

 

 

 

to be continued…