The Mystery of the Rapture Reveiled

Paul goes to a great extent to explain the mystery in 1 Cor. 15. The return of Christ is first mentioned in verse 24. The body of his message is to explain and debunk the teachings of the Saducees. The Saducees believe that there is no spirit, no angels, nor resurrection… see Acts. 23:8. So here in this passage Paul is explaining that we indeed have a spirit body and a Earthly/natural body. Often Paul discusses this fact in other Scriptures, “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” There is no need for a Earth suit in heaven. Yet so many miss the nature of the mystery that Paul is explaining. The mystery is not about the rapture (being caught up), but rather about the resurrection of the dead (see vs.44), and what happens to the Earth suit (physical body/ natural man).

In Acts 2 we are informed that Jesus natural body did not become “corrupted” in the grave. In other words it didn’t rot and decay. This was prophesied in the Old Testament. So we are made to understand that Paul is talking about the dead saints who’s bodies have become corrupted by rotting and decaying. Paul is stating that we will not all “sleep.” This means that we will not all come to rest in the grave by dying. Those who are alive (and remain) will change in a moment from mortality to immortality. This is the exact opposite of what happened to Adam at the fall when he sinned. He changed from immortality to being mortal. Death entered into the World through sin. Prior to sin Adam’s “Earth suit” could not die.

Paul calls this event the “resurrection of the dead.” He also informs us that the dead saints will again get new natural bodies that cannot be corrupted, rot, or decay. This is the mystery that Paul is referring to in this passage. The reason that the dead saints will need a new physical body is because Jesus is not going to rule and reign for 1000 years on Earth. Without a natural body, the dead saints would be disembodied spirits running around at this time with no Earth suit.

John informs us in Rev. 20:4,5 that those who get martyred for not taking the Mark of the Beast will be resurrected at the FIRST resurrection. 1 Cor 15:42-54 speaks of this same first resurrection.

Acts 1:9-12 informs us that Jesus will return in “like manner” of that He left. He left from the Mount of Olives to the sky/clouds to heaven. If He returns in “like manner” then He will come from heaven with all His (dead) saints to the sky/clouds (1 Thess. 4:16,17, Matt. 24:29-31 where we meet Him in the air) to the Mount of Olives (Zech 14:4,5 with all of His saints).

Earthly bodies never go to heaven. When John was told to “come up here…” he was immediately in the spirit…. Rev. 4:1,2. At the time of the resurrection we will be changed, but the word “glorified” bodies are not used by Paul to describe our new Earth suits (natural bodies).

 

Separating the Rapture from the Second Coming

A post tribber was having a conversation with a pretribber.  The post states to the pre, “I’m going golfing next week on Tuesday.”  The pre responds, “Is that the first Tuesday or the second Tuesday next week?”  The post states, “What?  What do you mean by that?” The pre responds, “Well the first Tuesday of the week we call the rapture, and the second Tuesday we call the second coming.”  The post responds, “That sounds a little schizophrenic to me.  How do you come up with that?”   The pre replies, “Well the first Tuesday is the day of the Lord and the second is the day of Christ.”  Again the post replies, “Say what?  Christ is the Lord!  There is no difference.”

I’ve been amazed at how the pre-trib camp has attempted to separate the singular event of the rapture/second coming.  The very word “rapture” isn’t in the Bible, yet it was conjured up as an attempt to bring a separation in the event.  They make these big long list or charts to attempt to explain the difference.  Some reasonings are all out lies.  For example:  We are told that at the second coming Jesus doesn’t meet us in the air, but heads strait for the Mount of Olives.  However, Matt. 24:29-31 which is a known as a second coming Scripture, informs us that Jesus comes in the clouds and gathers His own.  So then the argument must then separate the clouds (Matt 24:29-31) from the air (1 Thess. 4:16,17).  That has no more argument than attempting to separate ‘the day of the Lord’ from ‘the day of Christ’.  Both are the same.  We are told that at the second coming Christ’s own are gathered, but at the rapture, we simple meet Him in the air.  However, 2 Thess. 2:1 defines the rapture as being “gathered together with Him…”  In the end no distinction can be made.  Yet this is the very foundation of the pretrib belief.

For further proof see the posts concerning 2 events of “like a thief…”

Speculation of the pre-trib view Verses the Grounded Word of the Post-trib view

2 Timothy 2:23 states, “But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels” or schisms..

No one refutes that there is schisms in the body of Christ over the correct placement of the rapture. Paul tells Timothy to avoid speculations for this very reason. The key would seem then to analyze the Word of God to see if one view is truly built on speculation:

Comparing the Scriptural foundations of the pre-trib rapture vs. the Scriptural foundations of the post trib view:

Pre-tribulation Rapture Scriptural Support

The biggest argument for placement of the rapture of the pre-trib doctrine is the fact that we are not “appointed to wrath.” 1 Thess. 5:9. Because of this argument it absolutely makes since that the rapture would have to take place prior to God’s wrath. So here we understand that the timing of the rapture is given according to the logical reasoning that seems to make since. However, when looking for an actual Scripture to support the claim that the rapture takes place prior to the great tribulation, there is none to be found. If you know of one that pinpoints the rapture prior to the tribulation, please post below. Therefore the foundation of the pretrib view becomes a matter of precepts that are built upon logical conclusions. As a result of a lack of a single Scripture to support the timing of a rapture prior to the tribulation, there are multiple accusations that the pretrib rapture is not in the Bible, because of this. Often this is taken to believe that the accusation is that the rapture itself is not in the Bible. That argument is easily debunked. Of course, the rapture is in the Bible. What is in question is the placement prior to the tribulation that is in question.

So at this point we currently only have an assumption based upon speculation.

The problem with the logical conclusions is, that they are based upon an assumption of what the wrath of God is. Although Rev. 14:9-11 informs us that God’s wrath is Hell, and Rev. 11:15-18 tells us that God’s wrath judges the dead after Jesus rules and reigns forevermore. The assumption remains that God’s wrath is temporal in nature and not Hell. It is true that MAN declares that God’s wrath has come in Rev. 6:16,17, but both Jesus and Paul tells us to let no MAN deceive us. So we still have a mixed message… Is God actually stating that His wrath started at this point in the book of Revelation (Rev. 6:16,17) or is it simply the claim of men? The correct interpretation hinges on whether on not God’s wrath is temporal or remains an eternal Hell.

Let’s look at the application: If God’s wrath is temporal and God’s people are not appointed to it, then why are the “tribulation saints” missing the promise? God is not a man that He should lie. If God’s wrath is and eternal Hell, then God’s promise applies to the “tribulation saints” as well. For they too are not appointed to Hell (wrath). Another thing to consider is what ARE we appointed to? Often verse 10 is left out in 1 Thess. 5:9, AND 10. We are appointed to SALVATION and FOREVER living with Him. So our appointment is eternal in nature… interesting. Why is the word “appointment” or “assignment” used here? Those words often are used for a futurist position. When someone is appointed or assigned something it often has a futuristic due date where it becomes reality. It’s amazing the tribulation some of our brothers and sisters have to endure around the world. So serious that often we can’t stand to even hear about it. Yet, they know their assignment is Eternal and that Jesus overcame. That’s what brings them “peace” and “good cheer” in the trial…John 16:33

So often man who is affixed to Earth has his mind on the things of Earth. It is difficult to grasp the reality of the eternal, but with God, He is not temporal minded. And earthquake of Tsunami can instantly kill thousands, and man can call it God’s wrath. A Saint who has spent their life serving God, can end up dying a long agonizing death of cancer. We know that their appointment is heaven, yet it’s ridiculous to consider temporal death God’s wrath. Judgement Yes. God’s judgement brings about His eternal wrath.

We are not appointed to wrath… 1 Thess. 5:9 The word for wrath in the Greek is “ergo” It is only used 5 times in Revelations… 6:16,17, and 11:18(at the last trumpet) 16:19 (at the last bowl) and 19:15 (same event at the last trumpet/last bowl) .

In conclusion, the timing of the rapture for the pre-trib view is based entirely upon speculation.
Scriptural basis for the Post-trib rapture

Paul tells us that the rapture is at the last trumpet… 1 Cor. 15:51,52. This gives us a timing to work with:

51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The angel declares the same mystery at the 7th trumpet:

Rev. 10:
[7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets

This verse is never brought up when people attempt to debunk the last trumpet concept. The argument is directed only on chapter 11 of Rev. when the trumpet is actually blown. It is very interesting that the angel declares the word mystery. These verse… 1 Cor. 15,51,52, and Rev. 10:7 are the only verses in the Scripture that mention the mystery of God and the last trumpet. The debunkers attempt to show a ruse of other trumpet verses in the old testament that clearly don’t apply.

But that is not all…

At the 7th trumpet, Rev. 11:15-18, Jesus rules and reigns forevermore. He rewards the righteous….

HELLO!

Rev. 22:12 [12] “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be”

Did you catch that??? His reward is WITH Him when He comes…. At the 7th trumpet He REWARDS every man..

But that’s not all…

When the angel gives John the little book to eat, He swears that time “is no more,” and puts it in the context of the 7th trumpet.

Rev. 10:
[5] And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
[6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
[7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What is the purpose of John eating the book? To what end? It’s found in the last verse:

[11] And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings

That is a huge commission to someone in their 90’s if he was near the age of Christ when called as a disciple. This vision/ heavenly experience took place in 92 to 95 AD on the island of Patmos while in exile. He spent the rest of his days in Ephesus where he finished the final draft of Revelations and the book of John. He died without any record of prophesying to many peoples, nations and tongues…. EXCEPT…

Understanding the nature of the seventh trumpet:

1. Time is no more… Rev. 10:6
2. Jesus rules and reigns forevermore… Rev. 11:15-18
3. God wrath IS come, judges the dead… Rev. 11:15-18
4. Jesus rewards the righteous… Rev. 11:15-18
5. God destroys them that destroy the Earth… Rev. 11:15-18
6. Paul declares the Rapture happens at the last trumpet…. 1 Cor. 15:51,52

If Jesus now rules and reigns forevermore and God destroys those that destroy the Earth, then you simply cannot have an antichrist ruling and reigning chronologically after this.
Throughout the book of Revelation the angels/beast/voice from heaven are showing John the revelation and walking him through it, until you get to a section of chapters 12-16. In this section no personal guidance is supplied to him through it. In this section we have the mark of the beast, and the seven bowl/vials judgments. The angel does not return to explain and expound on this section until chapter 17. We know that Jesus rules and reigns forevermore at the end of chapter eleven and therefore this section cannot be happening post 7th trumpet, but rather must be a parallel, or a SECOND prophesy. John prophesying AGAIN. The angel told John that he would prophesy AGAIN as a result of eating the little book. Therefore the ONLY explanation is that the 12-16 chapters is exactly that; John prophesying again. This second prophesy originates from eating the book. John never had the opportunity to prophesy again to many tribes, nations and kings after his time of exile on Patmos. He was an old man and died shortly afterward. However, this second prophesy IS and will be heard by all the kings, nations, and tribes, when the mark of the beast is implemented and they start wondering why the Saints won’t play along and take the mark. The second prophesy mirrors the first. The seven bowls expound on it’s sister prophesy, the seven trumpets. They are one in the same.

That being the case, check out right before the seventh bowl. Jesus declares in Rev. 16:15 its in red!

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame

This is the same warning He gave the CHURCH of Sardis in Rev. 3:1-4. (Why is the church being mentioned in chapter 16?)

So here we see Paul declaring that the rapture is at the last trumpet. We see Jesus declaring that the rapture is about to happen right before the last bowl, and we have the Angel showing John that the trumpets and the bowls are one in the same. Jesus rewards the righteous at the 7th trumpet, and declares He comes and His reward is WITH Him.

There is at least three Scriptures that directly point to the rapture at the 7th trumpet. The view is not built upon speculation, but the Word of God

Is the Post-tribulation Rapture a Dangerous View?

Search the Web on this topic and you find very little on the post-trib side.  On post told me that the Post-tribulation Rapture is very dangerous because it messes with the pre-tribulational doctrinal issues.  Well naturally, but that hardly makes it dangerous.  Another direction people take to tell us that it is dangerous is has a more slanderous nature.  It is from an accusation that those who believe the view won’t see the need to live godly lives, because they can put that off until later.  Unfortunately, that argument applies to just about anyone and it is contrary to Peter’s admonition.

2 Peter 3:10,12

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Peter tells us that because the heavens and earth is going to be dissolved, for that reason we need to behave ourselves.  How a person chooses to live, is the heavenly test of eternity.   I don’t really see the logical nature of Peters reasoning here, but it dismantles and addresses the pre-tribbers argument over the issue.  In the end the accusation for the Post-trib view being dangerous is yet to be determined.

Taking a post-trib stance, on the other hand, is very beneficial.  It prepare and give a mindset to receive tribulation and persecution.  Both which are assigned and appointed to the believer… John 16:33, 2 Tim 3:12.  Paul tells us that he glories in his tribulations because the perfect him… Rom 5:3.  Jesus declares that this mindset is necessary to have the fertile soil of salvation in His parable of the sower… Mark 4.  For this reason the post-trib stance sees a fundamental tie to salvation.  The stony soil is not prepared for tribulation and persecution, and when it comes, those who have the stony soil, “immediately stumble” and fall away.  Taking the post-trib stance also prepares the believer to keep the oil in their lamp to go the distance.  This is the warning that Jesus gave concerning the 10 virgins.  Half were foolish and didn’t have enough oil to make it to the end.

In contrast, the Pre-trib view, has an extremely dangerous side effect.  That is the stony soil issue… Mark 4:18.  It makes the issue foundationally connected to salvation.  Because those who adhere to the view seem to be unable to look at the other side of the coin in case they are incorrect, they fail to notice that the fundamental attraction to the view is the part about skipping out on all the bad stuff, i.e. tribulation and persecution.  For this reason the stony soil has a strong attraction to it.  Historically this is what happens.  If the pre-trib doctrine is taught prior to persecution there is severe danger.  Such as in China in the 1930’s, when tribulation and persecution came, loads of believers became apostate.  Denying Christ, will cause Him to deny you before His Father in heaven.  Rev. 3:5 speaks of blotting out names that were once written in the book of life.

So concerning spiritual warfare, if the Devil were to take on a deceptive view, which one would be more favorable to his cause?  There is only one correct view.  Choose wisely.

The Bible tells the Timing of the Rapture

Although the Bible tells us that no man knows the day or the hour… Matt. 24:36 and that Jesus will come as a thief in the night…Matt. 24:42,43, 2 Thess. 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10, Rev. 16:15.  The Scripture also gives a very big clue and tells us when.  In 1 Cor. 15:51,52 Paul tells us that it is “at the last trumpet”
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

Often this fact doesn’t fit several doctrines so those who believe those doctrines immediately dismiss this fact.  However, Rev. 10:7 and 1 Cor. 15:52 are the only two verses in Scripture that discuss the revealed mystery at the last trumpet. Take a look at Rev. 10:5-7

[5] And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven

[6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
[7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Now lets take the actual event of the last trumpet:   Rev. 11

[15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
[17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
[18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail

Take a look at some of the list of happens at the last trumpet..

1)  Time is no more…. Rev. 10:6

2)  The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of Christ… Rev. 11:15

3)  Christ rules forevermore… Rev. 11:15

4)  Not only does Christ have the power….  He uses it… He HAS reigned at this moment in time/7th trumpet!   Rev. 11:17

5)  God pours out His wrath on the dead… Rev.11:18

6)  He rewards His people (see list)… Rev. 11:18

7)  People can no longer destroy the earth… Rev. 11:18

8)  The rapture…. at the last trumpet…. 1 Cor 15:52

9)  The mystery of God is finished… Rev. 10:6

Notice that Christ rewards His people… Point number 6….  At this point the reward is given out

Rev. 22:12

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be

Rev. 22:12 implies that the reward is handed out at the time of His return.

Could the fact that God wrath is poured out on the dead mean anything different than putting them into an eternal Hell?

Digging still deeper into the Word.  Rev 10 tells us that John eats the scroll or little book that gives him a bitter stomach.  Is this not the climax of the chapter?  This brings about the result of God giving him another word to release to the people…  Rev. 10:11

[11] And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings

John wrote the Book of Revelation in his 90s if he were relatively the same age as Jesus.  Some say it was written in 92 Ad others 95 during his exile to the island of Patmos when he recorded it.  It is believed that he was released and lived the remainder of his days in Ephesus where he completed the finished copies of Revelation and John.

So the question is when did he prophesy AGAIN.  John isn’t known historically as a prophet.  He is known as John the revelator because of the book of Revelations.

The obvious conclusion is that the seventh trumpet is the END of the first prophesy.  The angel had declared that “time is no longer” at the last trumpet just prior to giving John the little book,  You simply cannot have the big long list of accomplished events such as Christ ruling and reigning forevermore and then events in the next prophesy such as the antichrist reigning a couple of chapters later and think that the events are sequential.  The fact is that the first prophesy is finished at the 7th trumpet, and John is about to prophesy again.

In Rev. 12 the second prophesy begins and it is sequential through chapter 16.   Note the absence of any angel leading John through this passage.  The absence would would give opportunity for the presentation of the little book’s second prophesy.  Chapter 17 and 18 are explanatory chapters of that prophesy where the angel returns to explain them.

There must be two prophesies, because that would be the only way for the angel to swear correctly, and for Christ to rule and reign forevermore.  The the second prophesy is complementary of the first.  Therefore the trumpets and the vials/bowls are one in the same.   Note the announcement of the Rapture right before the 7the vial/bowl….

Rev. 16:15  Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame

Here again we have doctrines that dismiss this verse or tell us it is misplaced, but is it?  If the trumpets and the bowls are one in the same, this placement of this verse absolutely complements the fact that Jesus comes at the last (7th) trumpet.

Pretrib doctrine is Foundationaly built on Speculation of obscure passages part 1

I find it fascinating that a pre-trib doctrine believer actually believes that some prophesies are fulfilled. After all the most obvious fulfillment is the one where the daily sacrifices have ended, and pretribbers see it as futuristic. The Jews know when these sacrifices ended, the rest of the world knows that the Jews have never continued to resume the daily sacrifices, and yet pre-tribbers place this prophesy in the future. Interesting…

Titus who made a covenant with the Roman Empire started his quest in 66 AD to squelch the Jewish rebellion. After 3.5 years his quest ended by the decimation of the temple in Jerusalem. Thus ending the daily sacrifices and leaving Jerusalem desolate. This happened in chronological order of Daniel’s prophesy of the 70 weeks. Right after the Messiah was cut off by not for Himself, thus fulfilling Daniel’s 70th week to a T… YET…the pretribber tells us that there is a mysterious 2000 yr +/- gap between the 69th and 70 week. Just so that the Great Tribulation can be a 7 yr period, and so they can falsely separate the Jewish program from the church. What do they do with the daily sacrifices being obviously cut off? They tell us that the Temple is going to be rebuilt and the daily sacrifices again restored…. YET… the whole of Scripture NEVER gives any indication of that. In fact this thinking is brought about by a single verse…. Daniel’s 70th week which Titus clearly fulfilled in a timely manor.

This single verse that is falsely interpreted by the pretrib doctrine is the Foundation of the pretrib doctrine. Without it you have no 7 year tribulation period, no temple rebuilt, no mid-tribulation 3.5 year timeline, no end of the daily sacrifices, and the like. ONE SINGLE VERSE, and NO SUPPORTING VERSES to support it. The entire doctrine is built on such speculation of obscure passages that don’t support the doctrine. Sad part is that pretribbers want it to work so badly for them that they forsake the truth just to make it work for them. It is extremely sad the deception that they have brought upon themselves because they fail to love the truth… 2 Thess. 2:11,12

Daniel’s 70 Week, The Abomination of Desolation, and the time of Jacob’s Trouble are indeed the same event, but….

History is a beautiful thing. Those who ignore it are destined to repeat it. Unfortunately some End Time views seem to ignore some obvious history.

First of all we must address the foundational basis of Matt. 24. Many ignore the first question the disciples asked, as most pre-tribbers do. The disciples comment to Jesus concerning the beauty of the temple and its architecture. Jesus prophesies that it will be destroyed and not one stone left upon another. This occurred in 70 AD. The disciples then asked when this would come to pass… THIS IS THE QUESTION OFTEN OVERLOOKED. The parallel passages in Mark 13, and Luke 21 also ask THIS question and do not continue to ask the rest of the question that is in Matt. 24:3. That is pertaining to the time of the End. The fact that is overlooked is that this question that the disciples asked is TOTALLY OVERLOOKED…. WHY?

Jesus DID NOT blow off the disciples question, but answered it:

In 66 AD Titus started a conquest through an agreement with the Roman Empire to squelch the Jewish uprising against Roman rule. This lasted for 3.5 years in that ended in 70 AD with the decimation of the Temple. As a result not a stone was left upon another because the gold seeped through the stones and the gold seekers displaced them to get to the gold. Also the daily sacrifices were ended. This piece of History is an obvious fulfillment to Daniel 9:27. This happened chronologically with vs. 26 which tells us that the Messiah was cut off but not for Himself. Another obvious fulfillment of Christ on the cross, who died not for Himself, but for the sins of the World. By ignoring this obvious fulfillment pre-tribbers lose a witness to the Jews at this Scripture obviously points to the cross and the decimation of the temple in 70 AD and the end of the daily sacrifices. The Jews are well aware of when they lost the daily sacrifices and how.

Unfortunately the pretrib view totally ignores this fact and somehow it twists this verse (Daniel 9:27) into giving us nearly thousands of years gap between verse 26, and 27 to tell us that Titus didn’t fulfill it in a timely manor, but that it somehow is yet to be fulfilled. Thus, also ignoring the fact that the daily sacrifices were ended nearly 2000 years ago.  The Jews know exactly when the daily sacrifices ended… if only the pre-trib doctrine could figure it out then they would have not destroyed a witness here.

But…back to the fact that Jesus didn’t blow off and ignore the disciples question in Matt. 24:3. Jesus totally answered it. It is in verses 15-21. He told them, when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not previously spoken about by Daniel the prophet… (let the reader understand) That’s very interesting…. let the reader understand…. History lesson again: In around 167 BC another invading army under the conquest of a Roman ruler Antiochus Epiphanies. He created an alter over the alter of God in the temple and offered a pig to Zeus. This is recorded in Daniel 11. Daniel 11 is a prophesy that today reads like a history book. It starts with the time of the Greeks and ends with the Roman Empire where the Glorious Land (Israel) is made to be included as part of the Roman Empire, but Ammon,Moab, etc is not (see Daniel 11:40.41) So we can clearly see that the Jews totally understood, …let the reader understand.., when Titus came with his army and stood in the temple where he ought not, just as Jesus had predicted.

After this time the Jews were increasing pushed from their homeland to the ends of the Earth. By 162 AD Jerusalem was considered Jew free and not a Jew was to be found in Jerusalem. The Jews were not to return until 1948. This fulfills another prophesy… but if you are a pretribber…you are not going to like this one… In Jer. 30:7 Jeremiah predicts a time for Israel unlike no other, it is called the time of Jacob’s trouble.  It’s unfortunate that the pretrib view does not read the rest of the prophesy that continues through Jer. 31. You see as a result of the time of Jacob’s trouble Israel is scattered to the ends of the Earth. After which she is gathered… Jer. 31:8. She will never be scattered again. At the time of scattering 3 on the onset and up to 6 Million Jews were killed by the Romans, and at the time of gathering under the Nazi’s 6 million Jews were killed. The scattering included many generations up to 1948 where she was gathered. This was INDEED the worse time ever for Israel, approx. 12 million Jews killed. When the Messiah returns He will find Jerusalem OCCUPIED with Jews… Zech 14:1-4

Consider the pretrib… view if you believe the time of Jacob’s trouble to be futuristic…  3.5 years into the Great Tribulation the temple is destroyed and the daily sacrifices ended… The Jews are scattered to the ends of the Earth (according to Jer. 30:7 through Jer. 31), just to turn around and be gathered… returned to their homes so that the Messiah will find Jerusalem occupied by Jews. During that time half of Jerusalem will be put under captivity to fulfill Zech.14.  All of these events would have to take place in less than 3.5 year. It is estimated around 6 million Jews in Israel today. Over 12 million Jews would have to be killed during this time for it to be the worst time ever for Israel. Unless, of course, you do not consider the death toll as a consideration of the “worst time ever” for Israel.  What then would justify a “worst time ever” for Israel?

So Jesus spoke of the “worst time ever” for Israel… it started with Titus and the destruction of the temple. Jesus tells them to flee when they see the armies surround Jerusalem and Titus stand in the Temple where he ought not. That would be in the inner courts where gentiles were not permitted. Matt. 24:15-21

Note that Daniel also speaks of the “worst time ever” for Israel. Daniel 12:1….”At that time…” What time??? the time of the Roman Empire just spoken about in Daniel 11 which included the Glorious Land, but not Edom, Ammon…etc. see vs. 40,41

Scripture makes it very clear when the “worst time ever” WAS for Israel. It is not futuristic. Her future is brighter than her past.  The abomination of Desolation took place in 70 AD and when John wrote the book of Revelation it is not mentioned… Why?  Because it was now a thing of the past!

So why does the Pre-trib view ignore History? Surely they could integrate it into their doctrine? One point is the 7 year period of the Great Tribulation. Without Daniel 9:27 (Daniel’s 70th week) being futuristic a seven year period is not substantiated, and it’s very important for it to be 7 years long for them for some reason. More importantly, it is important to separate the Jews from the church concerning the Olivet discourse. To except history as history and not push it into the future one must except Paul’s writings that the wall of separation has come down between the Jew and gentile and we are one new man in Christ Jesus… Eph. 2:11-15. Without this separation the separation between the rapture and the second coming becomes impossible. It is already… you see Jesus declares that He will come “like a thief…” for the second coming… 2 Peter 3:10, Rev. 16:15. If a rapture were to happen 7 year prior, the Jesus would be a liar concerning the nature in which He declared how he would come for the second coming, “like a thief…” A rapture 7 years prior would destroy any element of surprise, “like a thief…” would have… Matt. 24:42,43. Jesus is not the liar.