Speculation of the pre-trib view Verses the Grounded Word of the Post-trib view

2 Timothy 2:23 states, “But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels” or schisms..

No one refutes that there is schisms in the body of Christ over the correct placement of the rapture. Paul tells Timothy to avoid speculations for this very reason. The key would seem then to analyze the Word of God to see if one view is truly built on speculation:

Comparing the Scriptural foundations of the pre-trib rapture vs. the Scriptural foundations of the post trib view:

Pre-tribulation Rapture Scriptural Support

The biggest argument for placement of the rapture of the pre-trib doctrine is the fact that we are not “appointed to wrath.” 1 Thess. 5:9. Because of this argument it absolutely makes since that the rapture would have to take place prior to God’s wrath. So here we understand that the timing of the rapture is given according to the logical reasoning that seems to make since. However, when looking for an actual Scripture to support the claim that the rapture takes place prior to the great tribulation, there is none to be found. If you know of one that pinpoints the rapture prior to the tribulation, please post below. Therefore the foundation of the pretrib view becomes a matter of precepts that are built upon logical conclusions. As a result of a lack of a single Scripture to support the timing of a rapture prior to the tribulation, there are multiple accusations that the pretrib rapture is not in the Bible, because of this. Often this is taken to believe that the accusation is that the rapture itself is not in the Bible. That argument is easily debunked. Of course, the rapture is in the Bible. What is in question is the placement prior to the tribulation that is in question.

So at this point we currently only have an assumption based upon speculation.

The problem with the logical conclusions is, that they are based upon an assumption of what the wrath of God is. Although Rev. 14:9-11 informs us that God’s wrath is Hell, and Rev. 11:15-18 tells us that God’s wrath judges the dead after Jesus rules and reigns forevermore. The assumption remains that God’s wrath is temporal in nature and not Hell. It is true that MAN declares that God’s wrath has come in Rev. 6:16,17, but both Jesus and Paul tells us to let no MAN deceive us. So we still have a mixed message… Is God actually stating that His wrath started at this point in the book of Revelation (Rev. 6:16,17) or is it simply the claim of men? The correct interpretation hinges on whether on not God’s wrath is temporal or remains an eternal Hell.

Let’s look at the application: If God’s wrath is temporal and God’s people are not appointed to it, then why are the “tribulation saints” missing the promise? God is not a man that He should lie. If God’s wrath is and eternal Hell, then God’s promise applies to the “tribulation saints” as well. For they too are not appointed to Hell (wrath). Another thing to consider is what ARE we appointed to? Often verse 10 is left out in 1 Thess. 5:9, AND 10. We are appointed to SALVATION and FOREVER living with Him. So our appointment is eternal in nature… interesting. Why is the word “appointment” or “assignment” used here? Those words often are used for a futurist position. When someone is appointed or assigned something it often has a futuristic due date where it becomes reality. It’s amazing the tribulation some of our brothers and sisters have to endure around the world. So serious that often we can’t stand to even hear about it. Yet, they know their assignment is Eternal and that Jesus overcame. That’s what brings them “peace” and “good cheer” in the trial…John 16:33

So often man who is affixed to Earth has his mind on the things of Earth. It is difficult to grasp the reality of the eternal, but with God, He is not temporal minded. And earthquake of Tsunami can instantly kill thousands, and man can call it God’s wrath. A Saint who has spent their life serving God, can end up dying a long agonizing death of cancer. We know that their appointment is heaven, yet it’s ridiculous to consider temporal death God’s wrath. Judgement Yes. God’s judgement brings about His eternal wrath.

We are not appointed to wrath… 1 Thess. 5:9 The word for wrath in the Greek is “ergo” It is only used 5 times in Revelations… 6:16,17, and 11:18(at the last trumpet) 16:19 (at the last bowl) and 19:15 (same event at the last trumpet/last bowl) .

In conclusion, the timing of the rapture for the pre-trib view is based entirely upon speculation.
Scriptural basis for the Post-trib rapture

Paul tells us that the rapture is at the last trumpet… 1 Cor. 15:51,52. This gives us a timing to work with:

51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The angel declares the same mystery at the 7th trumpet:

Rev. 10:
[7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets

This verse is never brought up when people attempt to debunk the last trumpet concept. The argument is directed only on chapter 11 of Rev. when the trumpet is actually blown. It is very interesting that the angel declares the word mystery. These verse… 1 Cor. 15,51,52, and Rev. 10:7 are the only verses in the Scripture that mention the mystery of God and the last trumpet. The debunkers attempt to show a ruse of other trumpet verses in the old testament that clearly don’t apply.

But that is not all…

At the 7th trumpet, Rev. 11:15-18, Jesus rules and reigns forevermore. He rewards the righteous….

HELLO!

Rev. 22:12 [12] “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be”

Did you catch that??? His reward is WITH Him when He comes…. At the 7th trumpet He REWARDS every man..

But that’s not all…

When the angel gives John the little book to eat, He swears that time “is no more,” and puts it in the context of the 7th trumpet.

Rev. 10:
[5] And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
[6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
[7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What is the purpose of John eating the book? To what end? It’s found in the last verse:

[11] And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings

That is a huge commission to someone in their 90’s if he was near the age of Christ when called as a disciple. This vision/ heavenly experience took place in 92 to 95 AD on the island of Patmos while in exile. He spent the rest of his days in Ephesus where he finished the final draft of Revelations and the book of John. He died without any record of prophesying to many peoples, nations and tongues…. EXCEPT…

Understanding the nature of the seventh trumpet:

1. Time is no more… Rev. 10:6
2. Jesus rules and reigns forevermore… Rev. 11:15-18
3. God wrath IS come, judges the dead… Rev. 11:15-18
4. Jesus rewards the righteous… Rev. 11:15-18
5. God destroys them that destroy the Earth… Rev. 11:15-18
6. Paul declares the Rapture happens at the last trumpet…. 1 Cor. 15:51,52

If Jesus now rules and reigns forevermore and God destroys those that destroy the Earth, then you simply cannot have an antichrist ruling and reigning chronologically after this.
Throughout the book of Revelation the angels/beast/voice from heaven are showing John the revelation and walking him through it, until you get to a section of chapters 12-16. In this section no personal guidance is supplied to him through it. In this section we have the mark of the beast, and the seven bowl/vials judgments. The angel does not return to explain and expound on this section until chapter 17. We know that Jesus rules and reigns forevermore at the end of chapter eleven and therefore this section cannot be happening post 7th trumpet, but rather must be a parallel, or a SECOND prophesy. John prophesying AGAIN. The angel told John that he would prophesy AGAIN as a result of eating the little book. Therefore the ONLY explanation is that the 12-16 chapters is exactly that; John prophesying again. This second prophesy originates from eating the book. John never had the opportunity to prophesy again to many tribes, nations and kings after his time of exile on Patmos. He was an old man and died shortly afterward. However, this second prophesy IS and will be heard by all the kings, nations, and tribes, when the mark of the beast is implemented and they start wondering why the Saints won’t play along and take the mark. The second prophesy mirrors the first. The seven bowls expound on it’s sister prophesy, the seven trumpets. They are one in the same.

That being the case, check out right before the seventh bowl. Jesus declares in Rev. 16:15 its in red!

“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame

This is the same warning He gave the CHURCH of Sardis in Rev. 3:1-4. (Why is the church being mentioned in chapter 16?)

So here we see Paul declaring that the rapture is at the last trumpet. We see Jesus declaring that the rapture is about to happen right before the last bowl, and we have the Angel showing John that the trumpets and the bowls are one in the same. Jesus rewards the righteous at the 7th trumpet, and declares He comes and His reward is WITH Him.

There is at least three Scriptures that directly point to the rapture at the 7th trumpet. The view is not built upon speculation, but the Word of God

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