God’s Wrath Controversy Made Clear

There is a lot of confusion on what God’s wrath is.  In Revelation 14:9-11 we are clearly told what the wrath of God is:

[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

God’s wrath is Hell.  The wrath of God is where a person is assigned to at the time of death.   The judgments that brings about death is the harvest at the end of the age Rev. 14:15.   1 Thess. 5: 9+ addresses this as well.  We are not assigned to wrath but to SALVATION. Read the follow-up verses.  It’s not talking about the temporal.  Heaven is our assignment.  Precious in the sight of Him is the death of His saints.  Death is not associated with wrath other than the assignment afterward… heaven, or hell?  God pours out His judgments whether trumpet or bowl,  and that harvest at the end of the age, brings about the eternal result.   Look back on the trumpets.  Prior to them man declares that God’s wrath has come.  Man has a temporal view.   The Word doesn’t declare God’s wrath until the last trumpet where the unjust is judged (i.e. sentenced to Hell). That where the wrath of God occurs.  Here in Rev. 14:9-11 it tells us what God’s wrath is, it’s the fire and brimstone that gives no rest day or night forever and ever.  The words in the Greek that are translated into English for wrath are different concerning 1 Thess. 5:9 (or-gay) and the bowl judgements in Rev. 16 (thnmos).

Consider for a moment, a Christian dying a long agonizing death of cancer,  then consider one of God’s judgments of His indignation being poured out and the wicked is given an almost instantaneous death of a tsunami, or a bullet to the head. The unbeliever thinks that is the end of it, and they might even consider that a sweet way to go.  The temporal removal of the spirit is not God’s wrath.  Hell is!  Key word to remember here is assigned, or appointed.  It’s the end result, not the means of getting there.




A myriad is literally the number ten thousand; in that sense, the term is used almost exclusively in translations from Greek, Latin, or Chinese, or when talking about ancient Greek numbers. Wikipedia

Other sources say the same definition of Myriad that ancient sources always meant 10,000.  Today the word can mean as little as a handful or bunch, to infinity. If however this word meant 10,000 when Jude wrote his book as Wikipedia says, it puts a quick end to the pretrib doctrine .

Jude 14 is the famous quote from the Enoch the 7th from Adam, we are told when Jesus returns He will return with 10,000s of His saints.  We can only speculate how many millions of saints have gone before us and are ready and waiting to return with Christ for His bride.

I know that rubs the pretrib doctrine, but check out another verse.  Paul is speaking of the bride being made ready here on Earth so she can be presentable to the Father, when Jesus comes with the rest of His saints 1 Thess. 3:12,13.

This parallels Rev. 19, and removes the confusion that comes with the pretrib doctrine that assumes the bride is already in heaven.   The Word in Rev. 19 says, that she has made herself ready, and the location of where she has made herself ready is assumed.  It’s a good thing we have the rest of the Word to remove those nasty assumptions.

The post-trib view doesn’t need myriad to mean what it does, but it is imperative to the pretrib that it doesn’t have a number.  Best for the pretrib view to avoid 1 Thess. 3:13 altogether.

I attempted further research concerning the quote from Enoch. Not yet finding the exact quote, but fasinating book, prophesies fulfillment of the world’s events from beginning of time to the end.  It also address the time segment of “weeks” that seem to stumble so many doctorates of theology concerning Daniel.   It is interesting in chapter 100 how it tells us that God’s angels will protect His own in the coming time of Judgement.

Daniel’s 70th Week fulfilled or future?

The 70th week prophesied in Daniel 9 has caused tremendous controversy in interpretation.  For the pretrib camp it is important to them to take this week and place it nearly 2000 plus years in the future.

Verse 27 is where the problem lies.  The previous verses are clearly about the cross of Christ and His perfected work there, and to this end most are in agreement that this is what it is referring too.  Verse 27 states:

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week.  But in the middle of the week he shall bring and end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wings of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,  Even until the consummation, which is determined, poured out on the desolate.

There are many historical accounts that disagree with each other concerning the 69weeks prior to this week.  Many say this week concluded at 33 AD.  Others say this week is yet to be concluded.  This verse makes it plain what the results are for this time period. The daily sacrifices end and the place is left desolate.

Jesus Himself put an end to the daily sacrifices by becoming that sacrifice once and for all time.  Although the daily sacrifices continued for a couple of decade after the crucifixion, Jesus made these sacrifices of no effect.  When the daily sacrifices were ended in the temple in Jerusalem the temple was burnt down and every stone removed to recover the gold that melted between the stones.  The temple and the city was left desolate by the Roman conquerors.  Thus verse 27 has obvious fulfillment of prophesy.

Why then is it needed so desperately for the pretrib doctrine to detach from the sequential order the 70th week and placed nearly 2000 years in the future by the pretrib doctrine?  We know that the devil is a counterfiter.  In the future he will have his own anti-christ and his own redemption for sin.  Who’s doctrine does the pretrib doctrine belong to then?  Christ who has already fulfilled the 70th week or Satan who has a plan to fulfill it sometime in the future?

Last trumpet Controversy

Pretrib diehards tell us there is nothing more than a trumpet sound that marks any ties to the 1 Cor. 15:51 and seventh trumpet mentioned in Revelations.

Let’s take a look:

1 Cor. 15:51 states, “Behold I tell you a mystery:…at the last trump”

Rev. 10:7 at the seventh trumpet,  “,,, the mystery of God would be finished..”

The seventh trumpet is more than just the last trumpet mentioned, it is the fulfillment of the mystery.   Paul make mention of the same mystery.  It is the only time mystery is mentioned in the bible (KJV) concerning timing and this event.

This last trumpet brings an end to this telling of the prophesy by informing us that the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord.

The next Chapter of Rev. initiates a fresh beginning of the same prophesy

The foundational WHEN of the rapture!

WHEN the rapture takes place is foundational to every view.  Sure each view has their reasons WHY they believe what they believe, but the WHEN is what defines the view.  WHEN is foundational to the WHY.    We can discuss WHY we believe the Earth is round or flat, but that is entirely man’s reasoning.   However WHEN is a fact and the scripture gives us the WHEN.  Consider and pay close attention to what the pretrib view does with this fact.

Jesus tells us exactly WHEN, “immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect”  Matt 24:29-31, and,  “I come as a thief in the night”.  The order of events that Jesus lays out does not conflict with the rest of the Word and gives a post-trib view.  We need to look to Jesus.  This is common when the concept of tribulation is brought up around pretribbers, “We are not to be looking for tribulation, but for Jesus.”  Yes, this is true, but the usage is a cop-out.  What Jesus Himself actually says concerning ‘end times’, the pretrib view must declare, “It is not given for the Gentiles, just Jews.”  So if you actually believe that (what man says concerning Jesus teaching about end-times) then what you have left is Paul’s writing to go by to define the WHEN.

So the pretrib view turns you attention on Paul rather than Jesus and gives us two of his writings concerning when, 1 Cor. 15:51,52 and 1 Thess. 4:17-5:2.  Both of which give us WHEN the rapture will happen.  1 Cor. tells us ‘at the last trumpet’, but man (pretrib view) tells us “its not really the last trumpet”, or “there are many last trumpets.”  This is meant to keep us off the obvious road map of the trumpets in Revelation.  Then we are given 1 Thess. and it tells us WHEN, “as a thief in the night”.  There again man (pretribbers) manipulate this to say the “thief” reference applies to the rapture here, but the second coming in other places (2pet3:10, Rev. 3:3, Rev. 16:15).  At this point they separate the “thief in the night” event into two events, and conjure up a totally different timing of the rapture, and say its not where Jesus put it, it’s where we (man) put it.  They have absolutely no scripture to back their claim of WHEN.  Sure, they have reasons WHY, but the WHEN is totally manipulated into something contrary to what Jesus taught.

I would be amiss to not address the WHEN that this view attempts to apply here.  In 1 Cor. 15: 51, we are told, “I tell you a mystery…”.  At this point the view gives the WHEN a timing of “mystery”, and capitalizes on the fact that no one knows the day or the hour.   Thus creating a total conjecture of the concept of WHEN.   Now that they established their mystery of WHEN, the can insert THEIR timing.  This timing, of course, is a pre-tribulation rapture, seven years prior to when Jesus declares He will come as a “thief” (Rev. 16:15).   They declare that “our pretrib view is the only view that has imminence”, the element of surprise, because no one knows the day or the hour.  However in doing so they attempt to make a liar out of Jesus who declares His imminence when He says, “I come as a thief”  2 Pet.3:10, Rev. 16:15  As the pretrib doctrine knows, there can only be one element of surprise in His coming.  With the pretrib rapture conjured up 7 yrs prior to the second coming, Jesus can no longer come as declared, “as a thief”, but His exact timing is declared 7 yrs later according to their view.  Thus making His timing (of the second coming) known and the element of surprise destroyed.

You can believe the timing of WHEN according to how  Jesus lays it out, …

the timing of WHEN according to how man presented it by doctorates of theology.

Your choice.  Look unto Jesus, “be careful that no man deceive you!”

Worthy to Escape all these things…

Sid Roth latest show had a guest that claimed 80,000 hrs of research concerning eschatology.  That’s an impressive claim.  The Guest Perry Stone was asked what his best argument for his view was.  He mentioned Luke 21:36 as his best argument… Let’s take a look.

“Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

The pretrib view loves this statement because of the word “escape”. This word. they say. supports the rapture, but let’s consider the REST of the verse in the light of the pretrib view:

First of all we are commanded by Jesus to, “pray always”.  So we know that is a continual petitioning the Lord.  What are we continually petitioning the Lord for?  “To escape all these things that come to pass…”   If you are a pretribber you consider this to be the rapture.  The ticket out of here via rapture is salvation, because all those who are saved will be raptured.  So in all simplicity to pray this prayer, you would continually be praying that you would receive salvation.  So correctly understanding this verse from the pretrib view you would continually have to be saying the sinners prayer… so you could be saved…. so you could be raptured… so you could escape all these things coming on the earth.

Furthermore, the verse tells us to pray that we would be counted “worthy” to escape.  If escape is equivalent to salvation, because it is the key to getting raptured.  This would also imply that there is a correlation between worthiness and salvation.  We know that we are saved by grace not of works or worthiness.

To use this scripture as a “proof” of a pretrib view is to twist the scripture (2Peter 3:16).  If you are a pretribber, have you ever actually prayed this prayer?  Think about it!  Why would you ever even think to pray this prayer?  Rapture is a promise to believers. You would be praying a faithless prayer! Do you really think God would go back on His word and you need to be continually praying that He would do what He has already promised?

This is the best argument for a pretribber who has 80,000 hrs studing eschatology.

Let’s actually consider this verse from a Psalm 91 (post-trib) view:

No problem… we know there is a great deal coming upon the earth that needs to be escaped… Lord help us be worthy to escape it all!

Abortion in end time prophesy

Abortion clock worldwide


     80 abortions per minute worldwide

Population clock worldwide:


     145 people born every minute worldwide

If these clocks are accurate that puts a ratio 16 : 29 for abortions to births.  That is over half. We haven’t a clue how effective the morning after pill is and unofficial abortions count.  Behind the iron curtain where abortions are mandatory, such as China and their one child policy, I am sure the numbers can only be estimated.  Pastors in Russia tell us that contra-conception is not used and it is common for women to have between 5 to 9 abortions in their lifetime. The nation of Israel is a big-time abortion partaker.

In the U.S. the rates are different between regions.

The 2009 abortion ratios by state ranged from a low of 57 abortions per 1,000 live births in Mississippi (Wyoming had too few abortions for reliable tabulation) to a high of 713 abortions per 1,000 live births in NYC (CDC).

We know that God does not turn a blind eye to this, therefore it must also be in Bible prophesy.

In Rev. 6 we are told that,

“And I looked and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.  And power was given unto them over the forth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”  Rev. 6:8

The Greek word for ‘pale’ is actually ‘green’ or ‘pale green’.   Green is the color given to the environmental movement.  The “green party” is often accused of saving the whale, but killing the baby.  This happens all in the name of population control.  “Mankind is the worst enemy to the environment,” we are told.

Yes, this fulfills the quota of the fourth horseman in this chapter.  It is the fourth world conquest and has its ties in the UN, world bank, and elite of the world with their New World Order agenda 21.  The other three horsemen have long been established… White (Catholicism.. Crusaders and the like), Red (Communism), Black (Nazism), and now Green… seeing fulfillment.   We currently are in the era of the beginnings of the fifth seal, and soon we will see it fully implemented.

I realize that this messes with any pre-tribulation rapture doctrine teaching.  That too will be exposed as the lie that it is, via non-fulfillment.  Those who continue to believe the lie will not be able to discern the times and the seasons, because they are stuck in a box.  The mantra of “It could happen anytime now”, will soon change to, ”It should have already happened”, to “Where is the promise of His coming?” to a great falling away.  Ask yourself, do you really think the abortion issue would go unnoticed in the light of end time prophesy?   Be careful that no man deceive you.