Who is the Great multitude spoken of in Revelations 7:9

Who are the Great Multitude in Revelations 7 Verse 9?

 

The Greek language uses a verb form that is not used in the English language.  The strong’s concordance calls the verb form “Present and imperfect”.

 

Wikipedia states this about the imperfect tense:

“Imperfect” comes from the Latin imperfectus “unfinished”,[2] because the imperfect expresses an ongoing, uncompleted action. The equivalent Ancient Greek term was paratatikós “prolonged”

 

The Spanish language has an imperfect tense, however it is a past imperfect tense. I mention this because I have been taught this while studing the foriegn language of Spanish.  This imperfect tense is indeed foriegn and it’s existance is totally unknown to those who have never studied beyond the English language.

 

It is important to understand this tense, because some versions of the Word misrepresent this tense.

 

Confusion can happen when people assume that the verb is past tense, because the word “come”, as well as other words, in the English language can be used in both past and present tenses. The command “Come here!” is very much a present tense, however if it is used with ‘have come’ or ‘has come’ it clarifies the word tense as past tense.  If Noah was to tell his wife, “The animals now come two by two into the ark.”  The tense of the verb come would satisfy the usage of the present and imperfect tense of the Greek word tense scrutinized here. This satisfies the verb tense because the verb form is presently happinging and ongoing.  If Noah was to tell his wife, “The animals had always come two by two before”, then the verb tense would be past imperfect.  The spanish language has a special ending for this particular verb tense.  The English language has no defining characteristics to clearify this tense.  Therefore there can be confusion between the two languages when translating them.

 

Lets’ look at the verb “come” in the verse Rev. 7:14.  The Greek reference number for this word is 2064.  The Strong’s states that this word in the Greek is only used in the present and imperfect tenses.  However, the NIV version of the Word puts this verb in the past tense, as a completed action.  This is an incorrect usage of this verb tense.  The KJV  states, “which come” , this is a correct form of the verb.  If the KJV had stated ‘which have (or has) come’, it would be an incorrect interpretation.  This is because it is a present (not past) imperfect tense.  Which means presently happening and ongoing.  Any interpretation of past tense must be ruled out.  Confusion can happen when people assume that the verb is past tense, because the word “come” in the English language can be used in both past and present tenses.  The Greek interlinear parallel New Testament by, Alfred Marshall clarifies it best in this passage, “These are the[ones] coming out of affection – great…” (Sorry, I don’t have the ability to type the Greek above each word as this version has.)  This version removes any of the confusion that is caused in translation.  The passage is about those who are currently coming out of the great tribulation.  The KJV is correct, but too many people attempt to slide in the word ‘has’ or ‘have’ in front of the word ‘come’, changing it’s tense and meaning.

 

Who are the ones coming out of great tribulation (vs. 14)?  These are in reference to the great multitude mentioned in verse 9.

 

Who are the “great multitude” (verse 9)?  Those who are coming out and continuing to come out of the great tribulation (verse 14).

 

Who are they who’s numbers are not complete, but still coming out of the great tribulation? Rev. 6:9-11, makes that clear.  Those experiencing martyrdom in the fifth seal.  They are told to, “…rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled.”  These people are still coming out of the great tribulation.  If you are still not getting it, read the whole passage Rev.6:9 through Rev.7:14 again for the first time. Only those who are deceived by man, through the pretrib additionial information added to Revelation, cannot read the plain and simple truth.  A pretrib rapture does not exist in Revelations unless man ADDS it into this book.

 

At no time can anyone come to the conclusion in this passage that the “great multitude”  is made up of raptured people unless they have been indoctrinated by someone who has told them that a secret rapture took place in Rev. 4:1.  Even then you must have an itching ear and twist scripture (change verb tenses) to buy into it.  Those who indoctrinated the church in this manor have added to the book and have endangered themselves in receiving its plagues according to Rev. 22:18.  Be careful that no man deceive you!

 

 

 

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The Church will never get raptured!

The very definition of church according to Revelation is those who go to church, attendees, not saved. You can see this fact in the letters addressed to the churches The churches include those, who watch, and those who don’t watch, those who overcome, and those who do not, those who keep their garments and those who do not. By this we know that the Churches in Revelations pertain to attendees, not saints. Attendees is also the definition of the Church today: Attendees, not necessarily saved. Doesn’t the pre-trib view attempt to make them out to be more than those just in attendance, all saints? You can see this in the post here making the church out to be all saints. The pretrib doctrine makes a big deal about it, the church gets raptured, and you don’t see the church after Rev. 4. Know that this is a stumbling block when pretribbers present their view to others. I think it should be a red flag to you as well.

Therefore we can see that any catching up or rapture experience will not be the church group, but consist only of saints/true believers.

Beware that no man deceive you!

The Pre-trib belief actually believes that God’s servents will experience God’s Wrath?

The pretrib belief believes that the church isn’t mentioned after Revelation 4:1, therefore when God’s servants and saints are mentioned they do not receive their place in heaven in the same manor as the bride.  The bridegroom is gone with the bride and those who remain and get “saved” in the tribulation are different citizens. Saved isn’t the correct term, because the work of the cross no longer applies, as well as grace. They must earn their place in heaven (salvation) by martyrdom.  In other words they must work for their position in heaven by paying for it with their very lives.. It is further believed that these are a second rate citizen of heaven, because the position of bride is already taken, therefore they are servants of the bride. Of course, not all pretribbers are in agreement, and there isn’t any documentation because this is all fabricated to make the doctrine of the pretrib rapture a working doctrine. It reminds me of a youngster telling a lie, and having to build a story around it attempting to make it presentable. 

The question still remains: does the servants of God or saints that are mentioned in Rev. 12-14 have to experience the wrath of God?  After all the “wrath of God” issue is the foundational reason for the existence of the pre-trib view:  God will not pour out His wrath on His people.  For this reason the “saved” get raptured. 

So then do the tribulation believers who believe during this time have to go through the wrath of God? If the view tells us, they all die a martyrs death prior to the wrath of God to escape it, then the wrath of God was never an issue for the believer in the first place.  We are assigned to tribulation John 16:33, but not to God’s wrath 1 Thess. 5:9. The foundational reason for this belief falls apart with God’s wrath being a non-issue.  However, if they tell us that these believers must endure God’s wrath, they become hypocrites concerning the issue.  Pretrib believers escape God’s wrath, but the other saints who must endure the worse tribulation ever, be persecuted, deal with the mark of the beast, and die a martyrs death, must also face God’s wrath. If however, the answer is that they are all martyred and no believer or saint is left alive to experience the wrath of God, then the question remains How can they answer Rev. 16:15.  The placement is near the end of God’s wrath being poured out the 6th and 7th bowl.  It’s written in red to designate the words of Christ, “Behold I am coming as a thief.  Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments lest he walk naked and they see his shame.  Obviously there’s some saints watching and waiting for the return of the Lord.

The reason the wrath of God is not an issue, is because He protects, and seals his own so they can experience this Psalm 91 experience by experiencing God’s protection as God keeps His own protected in the clef of the rock while the storm of His wrath passes.  The Pretribber needs to understand God’s protection in the time of wrath, and His peace and good cheer in the time of tribulation John 16:33.  “These things I tell you that in Me you may have peace.  In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”  The placement and existence of this verse is the most problematic for the pre-trib view.  Jesus told us He would come as a thief in the night to return for His bride. 

The Rapture is Imminent???

The Rapture is Imminent…
What exactly does that mean?  Doesn’t it refer to the element of surprise and coming as a thief in the night, or an hour that one would least expect?  We know that militarily that you only get one element of surprise, after that the presents of the intruder is made highly known.  Many who share the Pre-tribulation rapture view point out:  After the rapture there is a given timeline so that there is no longer any more imminence or surprise to the events following.  Yet the Word of God places the time of imminence, thief in the night event at the end, 2Pet3:10 and Rev. 16:15.  Because of this many pre-trib scholars attempt to say that the reference to, the “thief in the night’, event only refers to the second coming.  But there again, according to this reasoning, Jesus should have declared His coming to a “thief in the day”,  rather than “night”, because the timing would be declared by the occurrence of the rapture exactly 7 years before.

A letter to my pre-trib friends concerning God’s wrath

Any time tribulation, which the very nature of this is assigned to the church (John 16:33), is lumped together with the ‘wrath of God’, which is not assigned for the believer, a red flag should go up for the believer. The two concepts, tribulation and God’s wrath, are not the same by origin and originate from the very opposite sides of the war in the heavens. The reason a red flag should go up is the issue that Jesus brought up surrounding the concept of tribulation in Mark 4:17. This is the issue that those who are not prepared to face tribulation will fall away when it comes. Enough said at the moment concerning tribulation.

Concerning God’s wrath. Are we assigned to it? Absolutely not (1 Thess. 5:9)! But consider the pre-trib belief: A portion of the saints (rapture) get to escape the wrath of God while a different portion of saints (tribulation) have to suffer the wrath of God. That is the portion of saints mentioned in Rev.14:12 who have to endure the tribulation of refusing the ‘mark of the beast’. The pre-trib view implies that they not only have to endure the tribulation of man and devil, but the wrath of God as well. What an absurd idea! They not only have to endure the worse ever “hell” on Earth, but wrath from God as well? Does it strike anyone else as absurd to think that God would pour out His wrath on his servants?  Read 1 Thess. 5:9, you can’t have salvation and the wrath of God at the same time.   Pre-tribbers, read Psalm 91. Don’t you understand that God will protect His own. He protects them in the cleft of the rock while the storm passes by. It amazes me that you could even suggest that God would pour out His wrath on any of His saints.  Others, but not you.

This belief that ‘God’s promises are for some of His saints and not others’ is the foundation lie of the pre-trib doctrine. That is that everything that Jesus spoke concerning end time events only apply to the Jews. Jesus and Paul both preface their word on the end times with, “be careful that no man deceive you.”

God asked Adam in the garden, “who told you that you are naked?”, He pointed to another person (Eve) who in turn pointed to the serpent. I ask you, “Who told you that the end time doctrine that Jesus spoke was not directly for you?” If you have a good memory, you will only be able to point to another person, who heard it from another person…. who heard it from the serpent. Be careful that no man deceive you!

Christians who don’t believe in the pre-trib rapture are fear mongers

“If you don’t believe in the hope of a pre-trib rapture you are living in fear and spreading it to other Christians.”  This argument seems to be the top reason pre-tribers cannot stand other views.

Jesus encourages us by saying in John 16:33, “These things I have spoken to you that, in Me, you may have peace.  In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have over come the world.”

The encouragement of the Lord, you’ve got to love it!  It seems contradictory but that’s because it requires faith.   When faith is applied the reality of the promise is realized.  Pre-tribers fear persecution and tribulation.  It gives them itching ears and allows them to embrace the false hope of a pre-trib rapture.

Paul tells us that all those who live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution (1 Tim. 3:12).  No persecution equals no godliness.  No godliness equals no readiness of the bride of Christ.

The West may not be experiencing the persecution yet, but the rest of the world is getting slammed.  Entire Christian towns are getting wiped off the face of the earth in Egypt in the last couple of months.  It’s important for the Western church  ignore this, because in recognizing their plight also recognizes the reality of tribulation.  In recognizing their plight they too may decide to prepare themselves for the potential.  The devil simply cannot allow that, that would lesson the numbers of the great falling away.

Two events of a “Thief in the Night”?

A blogger writes on their rapture ready blog:  http://endoftheworld.net/Jesus/

“Once the Tribulation starts, there isn’t going to be too much of a Surprise anymore as to when Yahshua/Jesus will show up — everything will be consigned to a 7 year Context.”

This does seem an obvious conclusion to the pre-trib view, but in light of the concept of Jesus coming as a “thief in the night”, it raises a lot of questions.  The pre-trib view will tell you that the “thief in the night” refers to the rapture in Paul’s writings and in the Gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke, however in Peter’s and John’s writings referring to the “thief in the night” they do not refer to the same event, but the second coming.  Wasn’t Peter and John present for the same teaching from Christ as Matthew, Mark, and Luke?  The blogger comes to the obvious conclusion that there can be only one element of surprise, and with the 7 year context, that element of surprise is no longer, but declared.  Why then can the pre-trib view exist, because it must separate the “thief in the night” into two events?

If you are honest with yourself, you know there can only be one event when it comes to the “thief in the night”.  There can be only one element of surprise, exact days and times surround a first event would clearly foretell the second.  As this blogger points out. Therefore we know that the “thief in the night event is singular.  Every account of the “thief in the night” event presents it as singular.  None of the apostles records more than one in their writings. The pre-trib view attempts to make this into a mystery, and bring obscurity to it, but it is not.  Be careful that no man deceive you!

Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 1 Thess. 4,5, 2 Peter 3:10,16, Rev. 16:15